destructive bitching in the early morning
Pitty the story below (the wide one) doesn't allow comments; I wanted to post one: Using tables for layouting is the shit, huh? Especially if you have no line-breaking algorithm whatsoever.
By the way, who else hates the new story editor? I'm under the impression it got even worse since I saw the prototype. Why are 'subscribers' between 'author' and 'contributors'? What's the headline 'Publish in topics' good for? Why can't I see now that 'Publish in topics only' means that it won't be in the weblog/calender/frontpage? (In the old editor, that was obvious, but now a new user has to solve a riddle to find out what this option does.) And if you follow the human interfdace design guidelines from Apple, who make reasonably nice GUIs, the faux-3D border around the options with the lable 'Options' also does more harm than good. There's too much clutter, too little thoughtful design. Yuck.
Compare that to the story editor of MovebleType (looks huge because of two additional text areas; imagine it without them). Links to on-line-help anywhere! Almost minumum clutter!
supatyp
must be the bloke from that dustbin
robert
little nex is unhappy with the new editor, and instead of revealing the ultimate, thoughtful and self-explanatory design just asking questions, not giving the right answers. too bad. i wonder how long it will take you to learn that if you know how to make it better you *can* make it better. remember that open source thing?
nex
i'm sorry if you read that as a flame, robert, i surely didn't want to piss anyone off. in order to avoid disappointment, i clearly stated in the headline that my rants today have nothing constructive to offer, so it really shouldn't make you angry.
i liked the old one better. i already stated what's wrong with the new one before. if i recall correctly, there were some intelligent replies to my comment, but no one could mention an advantage of the new look and no one found a flaw in any of my arguments. the discussion ran dry and i thought, so that was that, we'll stick with the old one.
i was very surprised today when i saw an even worse version of the new editor today. i thought, someone must have discovered some advantages in that design, else it wouldn't be here. as i don't see those advantages, i asked some questions. for example, i don't know what the purpose of the headline 'Publish in topics' is. can anyone explain?
i acknowledge on several occasions – and probably will continue to do so – that you guys are doing great work and can be very proud of it. but if you want to improve it, you should take honest criticism a little more serious instead of fending it off with insults, robert. being rude to me doesn't eliminate the flaws i believed to discover, and it definitely decreases the likelyhood that i'll submit my own version. so could you stop that, please?
robert
nex, this site is imho definetly the wrong place for destructive comments. nevertheless i think the history of antvilles development tells you that any constructive ideas/proposals that help making antville better are *highly* appreciated, and so is any constructive critisism. if you have any idea in mind summarize it, describe it in detail (maybe illustrate it with a screenshot) and post it in the project log so that we can discuss it. if you think that something is wrong in antville try to come up with a better solution and publish it too. *that's* the way we have to work.
hns
did it ever occur to you that MovableType looks simpler because it has fewer features? Of course, if there's no option to control where a story appears or who's allowed to edit a story, the form will look simpler. Doh!
Just as a reminder that doing constructive work instead of bitching may be an option: Here's what my version of the editor currently looks like (note that I replaced the "publish in topic only" with a "publish on front page", which is selected by default)
(PS: I'm finally checking in all of this today. The folders stuff will go into an antville branch, the richt text editor will be a separate module, as a vendor branch from htmlArea 3.0 alpha)
robert
really looks good, i'm eager to try this out (esp. the folders).
nex
However, I'm not willing to contribute any other story editor at the moment. Making something better would require a civilised discussion about its various features beforehand. Firstly, if no one can explain why he'd like to implement/discard certain controls, there's no point in making these changes. Secondly, if no one thinks my comments are any good, I don't think anyone would like to use my story editor.
To say something constructive, too: The logic of your new story editor is close to perfect. It even avoids the single flaw I noticed in the existing one (which doesn't explain that you can't create a new topic by posting offline). One thing I'm not sure about is wheter it should really be possible to not put a story into a folder, because this makes it a but complicated. What if you publish something to the frontpage, then change your mind and disable the respective checkbox? One solution would be to have a default 'miscellanous' folder. This folder could show up in the list of all folders (what is currently known as the 'topics' list), but _not_ as a folder/category on the frontpage, even if you normally display topics/categories with the stories on the frontpage. After all, not wanting to have any folder associated with your story in the weblog is the only reason why you wouldn't want to have one, right?
As far as the appearance is concerned, I would get rid of the border (as I said before, I know these things are a matter of personal taste, but as far as these borders go, I trust Apple's HIG, they make sense to me) and change the order of the radio buttons to a more logical one (the author is a part of all contributors which are a part of all subscribers).
JohnWalsh
I liked the previous editor "options" although it did seem cluttered. I think the new options are confusing and the options proposed in the next version are even more confusing - what are folders?
I think all the "options" should have a lightly tinted background (gray?) to group them together. The dropdown box for existing topics and the input box for a new topic should be grouped using a fieldset tag (I like the way the "topics options" go across the screen). The "also editable by" radio buttons and allow comments should be grouped together in some way as I think its logical to group "story edit authorities" together. I think the "post status" dropdown box should be reinstated with "draft"(offline), "publish to topics"(online in topics), "publish to frontpage"(online in weblog). Lastly there should be 3 buttons "Preview" (view), "Save" and "Cancel".
I like the solid border around the title and text boxes.
Regards
John